Religion.

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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:54 pm

Seraph wrote:
Jason wrote:
Seraph wrote:For the same reason your parents ask you to clean your room instead of doing it themselves, they know it will be better if you do. Doesn't the fact that God trusted men to write down his word make it more accessible? We have no chance of matching God's goodness, but these 40 men that wrote the Bible were sinners like you and me and yet God still saw them as capable of doing it. If God did everything himself than what's the point of creating man in the first place?

Did you really just mean that sinful people can do something better (or for better results) than God? Shocked

I've read through my post a few times and I can't find that anywhere in there. I never said God couldn't do it, I never said God would do it wrong, I said God didn't do it himself.

No, but you said we would be worse if God were to have done it... I can't see how you didn't see that in your own post...

And lol, I can see a you might confuse yourself with that...

As for "could a man come up with that," I believe one could easily if they want to stick with a pattern.

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Re: Religion.

Post by isbird100 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:18 am

Ok Seraph, I can very easily imagine a person doing that. They are called geniuses, ever heard of them? they do that kind of stuff all the time, Crazy people do it too. People have done it before, and I wasn't using anything from a book, that was all from my own fairly odd mind.

There is very real possibility that the whole thing is just a person who thought too much about it trying to make it worthwhile.

It is sexist, Why was adam made first and then eve made out of his rib??? And if you believe the same thing as pickle, they never existed so it is just a story that was made up, and that is just weird.

My whole point is, you are reading too much into it. The Bible is meant as a guide, not as a set of rules. It wasn't meant for this time period either.
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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:25 am

isbird100 wrote:The bible is sexist, it is, no matter what you say it is. It only uses the word man, it was written by people from another age. Where that was normalAnd how do we know that the people who decided what goes in the bible didn't listen to God and decided to put in what they decided would help them the most. There is a very real chance that you are completely and utterly wrong, just because some currupt( i know that is spelled wrong i just can't remember how to spell it) idiot decided to get rid of the true books.

THe bible is from another age and we should apply today's knowledge to it as it wasn't intended for this time.

Again, we ARE talking about God here. Why would he allow someone to write in their own opinions instead of his commands? He is all powerful. I mean, we ARE talking about the God who killed someone instantly because they touched the Arc of the Covenant. Im pretty sure that He wouldnt let someone ad lib their own ideals in His divine book.

And even though it was written thousands of years ago, it knowledge can still be applied today. If people who lived in the 1200-1400's would have read their Bible, they would have known the Earth is round. And the book of Revelation tells us of things to come (aka, the future). Also, nothing the Bible says contradicts what we have learned today, so why would we have to apply today's knowledge to it? And why would God have it written, and allow it to survive this long, and not have it be for this time?

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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:31 am

Well, Hubble's Theory contradicts the bible... Actually, so does Drake's... And of course Darwin's... A lot do....

But other people have taken advantage of people successfully by basically ad libbing the Bible, so...

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Re: Religion.

Post by isbird100 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:32 am

For some reason this just lost all interest to me, but i must keep going!

YOU STILL CAN'T PROVE IT ISN'T SOMETHING SOMEPEOPLE MADE UP.

And that was meant to say shouldn't. Back then we had no idea about evolution, which does exist but according to you guys doesn't at the same time, the universe or anything else. We can't apply todays logic to it.

And random thought, why does it mention the creation of A woman twice? Are we so stupid that we can't get it the first time?
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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:40 am

Well, there was a book about a woman before Eve, but that was taken out of the Bible...

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Re: Religion.

Post by isbird100 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:42 am

Well just going from the bible it says.

Man and Woman he created them, then later it goes on and explains that he made a woman. Do we realy need it told twice?
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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:43 am

Jason wrote:Well, Hubble's Theory contradicts the bible... Actually, so does Drake's... And of course Darwin's... A lot do....

But other people have taken advantage of people successfully by basically ad libbing the Bible, so...

First of all, those are THEORIES. Not laws.

And about the ad libbing: If people would have read their Bibles, they would know not to believe these cults.

Isbird100 wrote:For some reason this just lost all interest to me, but i must keep going!

YOU STILL CAN'T PROVE IT ISN'T SOMETHING SOMEPEOPLE MADE UP.

And
that was meant to say shouldn't. Back then we had no idea about
evolution, which does exist but according to you guys doesn't at the
same time, the universe or anything else. We can't apply todays logic
to it.

And random thought, why does it mention the creation of A woman twice? Are we so stupid that we can't get it the first time?
But God DID. You have a wrong view of God, Hunter. He is all powerful, all knowing; He wouldnt let someone corrupt (correct spelling Very Happy ) His Word. And what is known to the majority of people as "evolution" is Macro-Evolution. So when most Christians say that evolution isnt real, they mean macro. Micro does exist. And the reason things have to adapt is because of what we humans have done to the Earth (Pollution, global warming, cause of the Great Flood, etc.).

And if you show me where it mentions the creation of woman twice, i might believe you, seeing as you never read your Bible...

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Re: Religion.

Post by isbird100 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:49 am

Pickle wrote:
Jason wrote:Well, Hubble's Theory contradicts the bible... Actually, so does Drake's... And of course Darwin's... A lot do....

But other people have taken advantage of people successfully by basically ad libbing the Bible, so...

First of all, those are THEORIES. Not laws.

And about the ad libbing: If people would have read their Bibles, they would know not to believe these cults.

Isbird100 wrote:For some reason this just lost all interest to me, but i must keep going!

YOU STILL CAN'T PROVE IT ISN'T SOMETHING SOMEPEOPLE MADE UP.

And
that was meant to say shouldn't. Back then we had no idea about
evolution, which does exist but according to you guys doesn't at the
same time, the universe or anything else. We can't apply todays logic
to it.

And random thought, why does it mention the creation of A woman twice? Are we so stupid that we can't get it the first time?
But God DID. You have a wrong view of God, Hunter. He is all powerful, all knowing; He wouldnt let someone corrupt (correct spelling Very Happy ) His Word. And what is known to the majority of people as "evolution" is Macro-Evolution. So when most Christians say that evolution isnt real, they mean macro. Micro does exist. And the reason things have to adapt is because of what we humans have done to the Earth (Pollution, global warming, cause of the Great Flood, etc.).

And if you show me where it mentions the creation of woman twice, i might believe you, seeing as you never read your Bible...

I have read that part, and GOD CAN'T CONTROL US!!! FREE WILL!!! That he is the only thing god can't do because he made us so he can't control us. Otherwise, well we just don't have any reason to live.

And some thing evolve( adapt) even away from human interaction, unless the act of watching them makes them do that which is a distinct possibility.

What about Island dwarfing?? animals that are native to islands and the mainland and different, but they are the same animal. Normal the islanders are smaller and different colored because of the lack of food and the mainlanders are larger. The Islanders have evolved on the island and have nothing to do with man. Sorry I just had to say that,

Any view of god is the wrong view. But what I believe is that everyone has their own personal relationship to god, no matter who they worship (exception satanism and some cases of paganism), Those worship Allah still worship God, in fact its the same God.


Last edited by isbird100 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:51 am

Pickle wrote:
Jason wrote:Well, Hubble's Theory contradicts the bible... Actually, so does Drake's... And of course Darwin's... A lot do....

But other people have taken advantage of people successfully by basically ad libbing the Bible, so...

First of all, those are THEORIES. Not laws.

And about the ad libbing: If people would have read their Bibles, they would know not to believe these cults.

Well, they are theories based on what we have learned today, which does contradict the Bible... Razz

And I don't pretend to know direct quotes from the Bible, but maybe these people used passages from like, Revelation or something to convince people that they were Jesus upon his return or something, idk...

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Re: Religion.

Post by Seraph on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:51 am

isbird100 wrote:Well just going from the bible it says.

Man and Woman he created them, then later it goes on and explains that he made a woman. Do we realy need it told twice?

Reference for this?

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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:56 am

"26 Then God said, “Let us make man [8]
in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the
fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the
livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that
creeps on the earth.”


27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.



28 And
God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and
fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea
and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that
moves on the earth.” 29 And
God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is
on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit.
You shall have them for food. 30 And
to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to
everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of
life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 And
God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And
there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."

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Re: Religion.

Post by Seraph on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:57 am

isbird100 wrote:
Pickle wrote:
Jason wrote:Well, Hubble's Theory contradicts the bible... Actually, so does Drake's... And of course Darwin's... A lot do....

But other people have taken advantage of people successfully by basically ad libbing the Bible, so...

First of all, those are THEORIES. Not laws.

And about the ad libbing: If people would have read their Bibles, they would know not to believe these cults.

Isbird100 wrote:For some reason this just lost all interest to me, but i must keep going!

YOU STILL CAN'T PROVE IT ISN'T SOMETHING SOMEPEOPLE MADE UP.

And
that was meant to say shouldn't. Back then we had no idea about
evolution, which does exist but according to you guys doesn't at the
same time, the universe or anything else. We can't apply todays logic
to it.

And random thought, why does it mention the creation of A woman twice? Are we so stupid that we can't get it the first time?
But God DID. You have a wrong view of God, Hunter. He is all powerful, all knowing; He wouldnt let someone corrupt (correct spelling Very Happy ) His Word. And what is known to the majority of people as "evolution" is Macro-Evolution. So when most Christians say that evolution isnt real, they mean macro. Micro does exist. And the reason things have to adapt is because of what we humans have done to the Earth (Pollution, global warming, cause of the Great Flood, etc.).

And if you show me where it mentions the creation of woman twice, i might believe you, seeing as you never read your Bible...

I have read that part, and GOD CAN'T CONTROL US!!! FREE WILL!!! That he is the only thing god can't do because he made us so he can't control us. Otherwise, well we just don't have any reason to live.

And some thing evolve( adapt) even away from human interaction, unless the act of watching them makes them do that which is a distinct possibility.

What about Island dwarfing?? animals that are native to islands and the mainland and different, but they are the same animal. Normal the islanders are smaller and different colored because of the lack of food and the mainlanders are larger. The Islanders have evolved on the island and have nothing to do with man. Sorry I just had to say that,

But they are still the same species. Was Andre the Giant a different species of human than the dwarfs on TLC?

This is micro-evolution, adaptation which neither Pickle nor I are disputing.

Pickle had the terms reversed.

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Re: Religion.

Post by isbird100 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:59 am

Seraph wrote:
isbird100 wrote:Well just going from the bible it says.

Man and Woman he created them, then later it goes on and explains that he made a woman. Do we realy need it told twice?

Reference for this?

THe First part is genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

and then later
Then Genesis 2:22
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [i] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

oh and kinda funny, God refers to himself as "Us" and if you want i can get you a reference for that.
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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:59 am

I already did (See Above)

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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:01 am

so if i eat carrots for the next month, and only carrots, and my skin turns orangish, i have evolved? dont think so.

True, He cant control us, but we can listen to Him and obey Him. Have you ever seen water run down the street curb? You cant control the water, but you can affect the way it travels by putting obstacles in the way.

And even tho we may be thousands of miles away from an animal, we can still affect its environment through global warming, pollution, and definitely via the great flood.

God also uses something called "Natural Selection." Those things that can survive better in certain conditions will be found there. And when they cant, they die, and the ones that can, will begin to take over.

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Re: Religion.

Post by isbird100 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:01 am

Ok random thought, not disputing he is all powerful, exception free will and that is by his will, but why does he rest on the seventh day???
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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:05 am

Jason wrote:
Well, they are theories based on what we have learned today, which does contradict the Bible... Razz

And I don't pretend to know direct quotes from the Bible, but maybe these people used passages from like, Revelation or something to convince people that they were Jesus upon his return or something, idk...

but they arent proved, they are thoughts. Mans own thoughts can contradict the Bible, but that doesnt mean the Bible is wrong.

Doesnt matter what piece of scripture the impostor used, If what they do or promise goes against God's character, then people would know it from God's Word.

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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:07 am

Pickle wrote:
Jason wrote:
Well, they are theories based on what we have learned today, which does contradict the Bible... Razz

And I don't pretend to know direct quotes from the Bible, but maybe these people used passages from like, Revelation or something to convince people that they were Jesus upon his return or something, idk...

but they arent proved, they are thoughts. Mans own thoughts can contradict the Bible, but that doesnt mean the Bible is wrong.

Doesnt matter what piece of scripture the impostor used, If what they do or promise goes against God's character, then people would know it from God's Word.

But we cannot possibly understand God's character... And no, those aren't proven, but Hubble's Law (sorry, I knew it didn't sound right when I put theory) is...

Pickle, Natural Selection is Evolution in accordance to the writings of Charles Darwin... If God caused it, then that makes sense...


Last edited by Jason on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:08 am

isbird100 wrote:Ok random thought, not disputing he is all powerful, exception free will and that is by his will, but why does he rest on the seventh day???

To be an example to us, or the Jews mainly. He took a full day of rest during the week, so the Jews should take a full day off. We are to be like Christ, who is God. That is one reason why Jesus came to Earth: to teach us and to show us how to live and act. The main reason being to pay our debt.

We can know His character, by seeing how He acts and reacts to people in His Word. If you read His Word, you learn more about Him.

And what is Hubble's Law?

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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:10 am

Hubble's Law states that Galaxies are in motion, moving away from one point in the universe that can't be Earth...

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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:14 am

Jason wrote:
Pickle wrote:
Jason wrote:
Well, they are theories based on what we have learned today, which does contradict the Bible... Razz

And I don't pretend to know direct quotes from the Bible, but maybe these people used passages from like, Revelation or something to convince people that they were Jesus upon his return or something, idk...

but they arent proved, they are thoughts. Mans own thoughts can contradict the Bible, but that doesnt mean the Bible is wrong.

Doesnt matter what piece of scripture the impostor used, If what they do or promise goes against God's character, then people would know it from God's Word.

But we cannot possibly understand God's character... And no, those aren't proven, but Hubble's Law (sorry, I knew it didn't sound right when I put theory) is...

If what you said Hubble's law is true, then you are perfectly right. Actually, this is stated in the Bible. I'll look for the reference, but It says something about how the heavens (one of 3 types of "heavens" used in the Bible, this one meaning outer space) are constantly expanding and moving. And not once does the Bible say that the Earth is the center point of the universe.

Pickle, Natural Selection is Evolution in accordance to the writings of Charles Darwin... If God caused it, then that makes sense...
So what if he used what God uses to try and prove his theory? That's how Satan works: He perverts what is God's.

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Re: Religion.

Post by isbird100 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:16 am

Pickle wrote:
isbird100 wrote:Ok random thought, not disputing he is all powerful, exception free will and that is by his will, but why does he rest on the seventh day???

To be an example to us, or the Jews mainly. He took a full day of rest during the week, so the Jews should take a full day off. We are to be like Christ, who is God. That is one reason why Jesus came to Earth: to teach us and to show us how to live and act. The main reason being to pay our debt.

We can know His character, by seeing how He acts and reacts to people in His Word. If you read His Word, you learn more about Him.

And what is Hubble's Law?

I am reading his "word" but dude you just answered something you shouldn't have answered, you just said you knew why god did something.
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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:17 am

Jason wrote:Hubble's Law states that Galaxies are in motion, moving away from one point in the universe that can't be Earth...

If that is true, then how does it contradict the Bible? I think somewhere in Job it states that the heavens (one of 3 types of heavens used the Bible, this one meaning outer space) are constantly expanding and moving. and i dont think the Bible ever says that the Earth is the center of the Universe.

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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:20 am

isbird100 wrote:
Pickle wrote:
isbird100 wrote:Ok random thought, not disputing he is all powerful, exception free will and that is by his will, but why does he rest on the seventh day???

To be an example to us, or the Jews mainly. He took a full day of rest during the week, so the Jews should take a full day off. We are to be like Christ, who is God. That is one reason why Jesus came to Earth: to teach us and to show us how to live and act. The main reason being to pay our debt.

We can know His character, by seeing how He acts and reacts to people in His Word. If you read His Word, you learn more about Him.

And what is Hubble's Law?

I am reading his "word" but dude you just answered something you shouldn't have answered, you just said you knew why god did something.

We can know why God does some things, but we dont know every reason. And we are talking about God here, so the least you could do is respect Him by capitalizing His name...

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Re: Religion.

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