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Religion. - Page 8 Empty Re: Religion.

Post by Seraph on Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:37 am

navy pig wrote:if everybody was like do wat u wanna do then wed all b fine

But what happens when what you want to do gets in the way of what I want to do?

I would love to have a million dollars, but most banks are a bit hesitant about giving away their money to people who it doesn't belong to.

And as for, "Does the Bible actually say Homosexuality is wrong?"

Yes, let me explain.

One of the first few commandments God gives man after don't eat the fruit of the Tree of Life is to have children:

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion
over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every
living thing that moveth upon the earth.
" King James Version,
Genesis 1:28


Last I checked two members of the same sex are physically incapable of multiplying. And as we learned from his first commandment (dont eat the fruit), breaking God's commandments results in punishment.

Now as I've seen you guys like picking apart everything to find a loophole, so I'll humor you. 'But Seraph, maybe that only applies to Adam and Eve since they were the only people.' Maybe but the following verse was written long after Adam and Eve, and isn't directed at any specific person but at the Hebrews in general:

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." King James Version, Leviticus 18:22


For those that would prefer a translation a bit easier to understand:

"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a
detestable sin." New Living Translation, Leviticus 18:22

'But Seraph, how do you know that isn't being said to women?' Excellent question, I know this because a few chapters later the same law is said again but with a bit more elaboration:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth
with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to
death. Their blood shall be upon them." King James Version, Leviticus 20:13


'But hold on a second, that's all Old Testament, we all know that Jesus changed things, right?' Yes he did, and we also have the following verse which Pickle mentioned earlier:

"Know ye not that the unrighteous
shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither
fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor
abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor
drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of
God.
" King James Version, I Corinthians 6:9


The phrase "abusers of themselves with mankind" is an interesting phrase. Paul uses the word arsenokoitai, which is in fact a Greek word not commonly used for Homosexual, in fact the actual meaning as Paul meant it is unknown. However based on the words etymology scholars are led to believe that the word doesn't in fact mean Homosexual (as that would imply both man-man relationships and woman-woman relationships) but instead simply refering to Gay Males, as 'arsen' means male.

So yes, the Bible does condemn Homosexuals. Rather severely.

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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:15 am

who is this guy?? or chick??

and if i get in ur way do waht u want about it
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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:20 am

i guess i belive in a three

but for sure luck cuz mine sux ass but randomly works really well
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Post by the guffman on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:24 am

Seraph wrote:Now as I've seen you guys like picking apart everything to find a loophole, so I'll humor you.

Apparently, you didn't see my whole, "I don't see this as a heated religious debate" thing... >_> Am I not allowed to just ask questions about the Bible because I, myself, don't know that much about it from my own knowledge without it being "picking things apart to find a loophole"?
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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:26 am

oh well
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Post by the guffman on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:27 am

Yoshi16 wrote:I think it was fate that we are all friends... Razz

Hmm, it may very well seem that all of our little misplaced people or different groups may have very well been destined to all become buddies! Wee
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Post by the guffman on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:29 am

Pickle wrote:You get what you want when you get to heaven. And because, when you get saved, you have a new mindset, different things are more important to you. To a Christian, being close to God is the most wanted thing. In heaven, you get that. But again, idk exactly what all is in heaven, but it sure beats being here, and definatley beats being in hell.

Aww, so if I get a new mindset and want new things more, does that mean I won't get the things I want now? Or if I do get those things, does that mean I won't want them anymore in Heaven? Eww

Oh yeah, and I still want to know how the economy in Heaven works Cool Yes
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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:31 am

not trying to offend anyone but wouldnt just be easier to scrap the religious plans and just do wat u think is right and die and then see what happens??
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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:32 am

why??? i mean we cause trouble everywhere?? this couldnt have been a good idea

but i still like it
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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:33 am

still who is seraph?????
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Post by Pickle on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:38 am

A friend of mine...

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Post by Seraph on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:43 am

navy pig wrote:who is this guy?? or chick??

and if i get in ur way do waht u want about it

Guy. And what happens tomorrow when I decide I dislike you enough that I want to kill you? By your reasoning I should have the right to do just that. And what if I find a way to do that which doesn't allow you to prevent it? Is that alright? Of course it isn't, hence the reason many laws are in effect. Humans are evil creatures who will do anything to get their way. But because of Government, Religion, Values, Morals we don't do whatever comes to mind.

The illustration I like is that of a man holding his 6 month old child, the child notices the man's watch and tries to take it from him. The father pulls his arm away and tells the child "no", but the child reaches for it again. The process repeats. Now imagine that child is an 18 year old man with the same mentality, the child would kill his family at a moments notice. Humans are born sinners, it isn't something we can control. But God is willing to forgive us of our sins and completely forget they ever happened.

Am I not allowed to just ask questions about the Bible because I,
myself, don't know that much about it from my own knowledge without it
being "picking things apart to find a loophole"?

If this is the place you come to learn about the Bible I would reconsider. The best place would be the Bible, it may be hard to understand but that's why there are other people (far better qualified than Pickle or I), I can recommend my Pastor though.

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Post by the guffman on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:45 am

That's the point, Tay... See, that's the point... We shouldn't see it as more than what it is Cool
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Post by the guffman on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:47 am

Well I don't talk to your pastor do I? I didn't come to my own forum to learn about the Bible, I came to my forum to have fun and have a good time, and wish the same to the other members... I just figured I may as well ask what's on my mind while we were on the subject, but if I shouldn't ask my friend that, then sorry I asked. >_>
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Post by the guffman on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:47 am

Logically, one would think, but religiously, the Bible says otherwise.
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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:58 am

yeah but if u ignore it and do whats right or good then the bible wouldnt matter
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Post by Pickle on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:02 pm

not trying to offend anyone but wouldnt just be easier to scrap the
religious plans and just do wat u think is right and die and then see
what happens??

But if you do that, then when you die you are going to hell. Thats why I'm telling you guys this stuff. If I didnt care about you, I wouldnt bother telling you in the first place. If this were just a mere "belief," then I would keep it to myself, or mention that I believe it and be done with it. I dont want to see any of you go to hell. Its kinda like your house is on fire in the middle of the night. I can either be asleep, not noticing the fire; I can see it but not do anything; I can go to your house and politely knock and when you dont answer, go away; OR I can scream and shout and do everything in my power to warn you about the fire. Thats what I'm trying to do: Warn you about the fire. I could expound on that, but I already have in earlier posts. I can tell you about the fire, but its up to you to get out of the house.

yeah but if u ignore it and do whats right or good then the bible wouldnt matter
Would you consider yourself a good person?

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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:04 pm

whoa there bud

not everyone is a bad person there are plenty of none religious do gooders out there.

and a kid grabbing for a watch does not make a murderer.

the kid thinks ohhhhh shiny. i doubt thats wat the 18 year old thinks.
he may be thinking hey that watch could buy my beer and dope for the next coupla days but he probaly aint goin ohhhhh shiny
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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:05 pm

Very Happy
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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:07 pm

nice example with the fire

and yah i think im a good person mostly
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Post by Pickle on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:31 pm

but if I shouldn't ask my friend that, then sorry I asked. >_>
You can ask us, thats fine. But like he said, you would learn a lot more from either the Bible itself or someone who studies the Bible for a living, for example, my pastor

nd a kid grabbing for a watch does not make a murderer.

the kid thinks ohhhhh shiny. i doubt thats wat the 18 year old thinks.

He said that if the 18yr old had the same mindset as the baby. The baby was doing everything in its power to get that watch. If the kid was 18, and still had the same mindset, it would have killed the man for the watch. This shows that people are naturally evil creatures.

not everyone is a bad person there are plenty of none religious do gooders
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This passage means that no matter how "good" you are, if you arent saved By Grace through FAITH, you are going to hell.

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Post by Pickle on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:32 pm

Could I ask you a few questions to prove it?

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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:41 pm

sure
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Post by navy pig on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:44 pm

the kid doesnt have to still have the same mindset though he could want the watch for entirly different reasons

or maybe the dad tought the kid well and the kid knows he cant have the watch
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Post by Pickle on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:55 pm

your missing the point. The KID is evil from birth. we dont "see" it because the child is too small and weak to pose a threat.

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