Religion.

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Re: Religion.

Post by Weeber33 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:30 am

not to be rude but i don't think there is a god...

or heaven and hell...

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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:32 am

Standing out on I90 with a blind fold on and not believing in traffic doesnt keep you from getting hit by a car. I suggest that you read my "wall of txt" if you havent yet.

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Re: Religion.

Post by Weeber33 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:34 am

i can prove the cars are there...

but i can't with god

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Re: Religion.

Post by isbird100 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:38 am

Pickle wrote:So, what you are saying is that God isnt omnipotent? That He cant heal terretz, or any other disorder? Then you need to read your Bible. And as I said before, there will be pastors and preachers, and "prophets" who will be on their way to hell because they have never confessed theirs sin to God and repented of them. I can say that im sorry to someone a million times for the same thing, and if i have no intention of stopping, then i havent repented, leading me hell bound. And everyone has a chance to get saved. We have an instinct to go to the Savior. We all have something in us that wants God. If someone truly is looking for the one and only God, He will send someone to your. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." We could sell everything and give the money to a church, and work at said church, and still go to hell because we didnt believe with our hearts, confess with our mouths unto righteousness, and repent of our sins. God has told us the requirements, and they arent that hard. I have told you how you can be saved. If you choose not to put on the parachute, Hunter, then your blood is not on my hands. I really hope that someday you will accept the Lord as your Savior. As much as I give you a hard time, and I know that I go too far sometimes, I love you (brotherly way of course) and wish the best for you. and btw, sorry for those times that i go to far. If I start again, just let me know, and I'll stop.

What about people who are mentally incapable of believing in a god. and Why doesn't god help all of the people who can't help what they do and want to change it? i think that our veiw of god is so wrong that we misunderstand it. I accept Jesus as my savior, but not my lord. I try my best to follow the ten commandments, but I don't go to church because for some reason i can't stand nuns and preachers.
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Re: Religion.

Post by isbird100 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:41 am

I have met people that completely deny themselves of their desires and are still homosexual. They can't help it, but they don't act it. Is that still a sin? I'm saying that something the people who "wrote" the bible didn't consider, somethings that are so rare that we have no precedent for.
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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:43 am

When you look at a painting, you know there is a painter
When you look at a building, you know there is a builder
How? Because the painting is the evidence that there was a painter
Because the building is the evidence that there was a builder
The same works with God. You know there was a creator because the creation is evidence that there is one.

A bird house is an incredibly simple construction, made by man. It cant make itself, or another one of itself.

A tree is and incredibly complicated construction, made by God. It CAN grow, and produce another tree.

And like i said before, just read my "wall of txt" as well as my couple of previous posts. they might answer some of your questions.

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Re: Religion.

Post by isbird100 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:48 am

Well lets just drop it lol and agree to disagree
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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:57 am

Like I said, Hunter: God is just. If they are incapable of understanding what a God is, then they are under his grace. And quite honestly, I dont know why God doesnt heal everyone. I do know that disease is a form of punishment. But God also says, "For all things worketh together for good, to them that love God, to them who are called according to His purpose." God uses people and their disabilities to his will. And those who endure those things will be greatly rewarded when/if they get to heaven. Death and Birth bring most people towards God. If my dad had to die inorder for my grandma to get saved, i would rejoice, because i know my dad is goin to heaven when he dies, but my grandma isnt. Paul says, "For me to live, is Christ, and to die is gain."

And obviously you have a problem with God, Hunter. And you need to get that right with Him. If he is your Savior he should be your Lord. I dont like priest or nuns either. The Bible talks about how the false teachers will abstain from marriage and meats. I'll look for the referrence. The Catholic belief system goes against the Bible so much, its surprising that they even own one, if they do. You cant go wrong using just God's Word. And in His Word, he says that we should go to church. And Hunter, when was the last time you read your Bible?

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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:02 am

The Bible is God's Word. And God is perfect. He said it, they wrote it. And they may struggle with homosexuality, but if they dont act on it, then they are fine. If i think about stealing something, but dont touch it, then im not guilty. And there is actually a guy at my church who struggles with it, but he doesnt act on it, and nobody says anything.

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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:41 am

Pickle wrote:Like I said, Hunter: God is just.

Who says? Huh?

Pickle wrote: If they are incapable of understanding what a God is, then they are under his grace.

a God? Could they understand what a Jason is then, or betteryet, a Guffman? Wee Laughing

Pickle wrote: And quite honestly, I dont know why God doesnt heal everyone. I do know that disease is a form of punishment.

So babies that are diagnosed with diseases from their parents are punished? This seems more malevolent than just. Same with the innocent or faithful that are diagnosed with terrible diseases, like those on House. (<lolHousereferenceinreligionconvo)

Pickle wrote:But God also says, "For all things worketh together for good, to them that love God, to them who are called according to His purpose." God uses people and their disabilities to his will. And those who endure those things will be greatly rewarded when/if they get to heaven.

So those that God chooses to have these burdens or disabilities are rewarded greater than those that he has not chosen? This, too, seems less than just... picking a certain few out of the many willingly faithful... And even so, "if" they get to heaven? Could they be chosen by the lord to bear these problems, and yet still not make it? That sounds rather unfair... Sad

Pickle wrote:Death and Birth bring most people towards God. If my dad had to die in order for my grandma to get saved, i would rejoice,because i know my dad is goin to heaven when he dies, but my grandma isn't. Paul says, "For me to live, is Christ, and to die is gain."

Actually, what's always been on my mind, what do you really gain when you reach Heaven? Furthermore, what if one had to suffer like, per say, go through extreme torment or torture, maybe even Hell itself for another to be saved, without their knowledge? What if it was to their knowledge? What if a man knew his suffering would "save" (I'll quote it to assure I'm referring to this type of saving, not as in rescuing from a river or something) the soul of another. Would he still want to go through with it? Would he even have a choice in the matter? If God would take away man's choice in the matter, then that, too, seems less than just to me... Sorry if I'm the only one... confused

Pickle wrote:And obviously you have a problem with God, Hunter. And you need to get that right with Him. If he is your Savior he should be your Lord.

If he is my savior too and he so wishes it, he should tell me he wants to be my lord. Until then, I won't support the long-since-abandoned lord system. king

Pickle wrote:I don't like priest or nuns either. The Bible talks about how the false teachers will abstain from marriage and meats. I'll look for the reference. The Catholic belief system goes against the Bible so much, its surprising that they even own one, if they do. You can't go wrong using just God's Word. And in His Word, he says that we should go to church. And Hunter, when was the last time you read your Bible?

For some reason, priests and nuns creep me out too... Razz Haha, asking Hunter the last time he read (which for all I know, is, in fact, a long time) the Bible, a book, is cause for lulz study < Laughing

I'm in ur religiunn convo, addin mah smileez! mrgreen
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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:58 am

Pickle wrote:The Bible is God's Word. And God is perfect.

If God is perfect, why would he makes something as imperfect as man in his image? Furthermore, why does everyone look different...? confused

Pickle wrote:He said it, they wrote it.

But it isn't all God, there's a ton of other people who had their own words and stories in the Bible. And there are a ton of people who wrote the original Bibles, and also modified them to their own accord, thus the rejection of books mentioned in the other topic.

Pickle wrote:And they may struggle with homosexuality, but if they dont act on it, then they are fine. If i think about stealing something, but dont touch it, then im not guilty.

So, say I have the intention of acting on something like, say, theft or murder, but a psychotic serial killer manages to kill me before I'm able to act on it...

Pickle wrote:And there is actually a guy at my church who struggles with it, but he doesnt act on it, and nobody says anything.

And if he were to? Would you be disgusted by his sins? And, like most issues with humanity, there is differentiation on the subject of "preferred sexuality." I hope you both know that; for some people, they can just convince themselves to suppress these urges with faith, heterosexual relationships, the bottle, whatever, but for others, the willpower or desire to overcome these feelings are just not there... Is it really so terrible that some people just are not strong enough to choose?
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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:33 am

He made us with a free will. If he had made us mindless servants with no other choice, what would that prove? Adam and Eve chose to sin, and thus gave us a sinful nature. And we all look different because we all are different. When the Bible says we were made in his image, it means we were made to his "species." Its kinda like how you look like your parents, but you dont look exactly alike.

Before the New Testament was put together, the early churches already widely accepted 20 books, those being just about every book except 7 that were under speculation (Dont know exactly what seven). But they used certain criteria when putting the books into the Bible. If it wasn't written by an apostle, or someone who was there to witness Christ, it didnt have a likely chance to be in. And if it was already widely accepted, then it was in. And these early Christians prayed hard, and the Lord showed them what books should be in. Then, in Revelation, the Lord tells John that after this book, there shouldnt be any more additions. Most of these "lost books" were written around 300 years after Christ"s death, Meaning around 250 years after the book of Revelations was written. God did not ordain those books. And the authors of the Bible wrote what God told them to. I think the term is Divine Inspiration. Like I said, He said it, they wrote it.

Acting on it is definately a sin. But God also sees our hearts. If we have the intention to kill someone, but die on the way, we are guilty of murder in God's eyes. Jesus said that he who hateth his brother has murdered him in his heart. You would have to pretty much hate someone to kill them.

If the man at my church were to act on his sins, we would help him. Thats what Christians do for each other: we edify, encourage, uplift, etc. each other. If its a continual sin, and he has no intention of stoppping, then he need to check his salvation. But if he doesnt act on it, then he hasnt sinned. But mind you, that this guy doesnt proclaim that he is a homosexual. We actually found out when he confessed to the church that he had done something wrong in God's eye sexually and we all forgave him and offered encouragement.

Finally, with God, all things are possible. Adam, by sinning, sold us into slavery to sin. When we accept Jesus as our Savior, we are out of bondage. We dont have to sin anymore! From that point foward, its a choice to sin. And if the person who is struggling with the bottle, or sexual immorality, comes to God so that He can set them free, He will. My dad was a raging alcoholic from the age of 6. My mom couldnt buy diapers for almost a month once because my dad drank up the bank accounts. He also smoked. He smoked cigars, cigarettes, weed, and crack. He was in so much trouble that the state of Illinois said that you either go to jail, or get out. But when he came to God, he got rid of all of it. Now he is a deacon at my church as well as my sunday school teacher. If that isnt change idk what is.

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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:12 am

The Bible shows that God is just. He gave us the law, and we broke it, and because of it, we are sentenced to eternal death. He wouldnt be a just judge if he let us go unscathed after breaking his law.

I said "a God" because if they have the ability to believe in a god, any "god," then they have the ability to believe in THEE God. If they cant, then they are under God's grace.

I said before that God gives everyone a challenge in their life. Some people struggle with theft, some with sexual sins, and some people have to struggle with disease. The babies arent punished, they are being used of God to either show his existence thru a miracle, or it is something that they have to live with. And like I said, when we (Christians) get to heaven, if we overcame the trials that God put us thru, then we are rewarded; we earned it. Additionally, the Bible says that He is not willing that any should perish, meaning he doesnt want anyone to go to hell. Hell, contrary to popular belief, wasnt made for man; it was made for the fallen angel who had tresspassed against God. It just so happened that Adam and Eve fit the criteria for hell when they tresspassed against God.

We get our rewards for the trials IF we overcome them. If Joe Shmoe gets cancer at the age of 10, and then sulks around about it until he dies, he didnt overcome his situation; he let it take control and not God. Furthermore, if he didnt accept Jesus as his Savior, then he doesnt have a parachute. And when he jumps off the plane, hes dead.

We gain A LOT when we go to heaven. No sickness, no death, riches unimaginable, a mansion bigger than you can shake a stick at, eternal peace, no wars, no financial debt, no suffering, no darkness, eternal life, no famines, no droughts, no stealing, no rape, no destruction, the ability to see saved family members, we even get to rule over the angels! It so amazing! I honestly cant wait until the Lord calls me home.

Like I said, God doesnt want any to go to hell. If someone dies without being saved, and goes to hell, its a sad thing, depressing even. But if someone got saved due to that, then PRAISE GOD. Not for the death of the person, but for the salvation of another person. The person who died had their chance. They chose not to go to the Savior. And now that their time is up, they cant go back.

And He has told you that he wants to be your Lord and Savior. He tells you in His Word.

I asked Hunter that because the Bible says that we can know if someone is saved because of their "fruit." If Hunter is saved, he should have a desire to do the Lord's will, to go to a good, bible-preaching church, to read his Bible and pray. Its instilled in us Christians. The only way to know more about the Savior is to spend time with Him, and we do this by reading His Word and talking to Him.

And I do thank you for reading teh "wall o' txt." And I really do hope that you accept the Savior, Jason. He died for you. He was beaten to the point of unrecognition so you didnt have to suffer one second in hell. He was nailed to the cross so that He could see you in heaven. And both of us would hate to see God Almighty tell you,"Depart from me, for I never knew thee," and then cast you out of heaven into hell. You have read what i said, and you know how to be saved. If you dont accept Him, on the day of Judgement, your blood is not on my hands. I told you the truth, now you have to chose: Heaven or Hell.
I will be praying for you.

Your Friend,
Dylan

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Re: Religion.

Post by Sirdavid79 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:01 am

...wow Im going to go with a short post and say that I agree with pickle.
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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:29 pm

I read most of that with intrigue until you referred to me as Jason... Eww Laughing

So, in Heaven we get whatever could make us eternally happy... Honestly, and no offense to anyone, but I don't really want riches (what would you buy in Heaven anyways? Razz ) or a huge-ass mansion (I'd get bored very easily with it, I'd just need a room to have fun really, I don't need to be going around a huge mansion all the time to find something to do... Razz

Then of course, we have to remember that everyone (at least everyone in a relationship) has two sets of families, one of their own, and one of their significant other. For example, you can't really be alone with your deceased wife if she is spending time with her deceased parents and you're reuniting with your own deceased relatives at the same time, and that just seems in the slightest bit imperfect...

And no, the Bible didn't give us the law... Wasn't the Hammurabi Code (a famous publication of Babylonian law) written way before the Bible?

And what if they believe in "a God" that isn't "the God," but, like Hunter said, they aren't ever once exposed to the idea of a different God, like this God? confused

Oh, and, by the way, what is the criteria of Hell anyways? I wanted to know that...

But what if God puts a challenge in front of us to overcome, but it is impossible? Do we just have to basically cope with it? For example, I remember Jobe or Joeb or however you spell it had to basically lose everything in a mere test of faith. He did cope with the losses and keep his faith, but he couldn't just overcome God and make the obstacle go away, so there do seem to be at least some things that we can't really just "overcome"

And I haven't really had God talk to me through His Word once... Razz

And the babies are just blessed? Isn't disease suffering and by suffering, punishment like you said? tongue

And I don't really think Jesus died for me yet, considering I didn't live anywhere close to the time or region. I mean, one thing could have happened in which my dad gets hit in the balls with a baseball and therefore I'm never born. "You see a creation, you know there's a creator." I wasn't created yet, so, for that time, there was no creator...

Actually, now that I'm thinking, Jesus died for all of humanity's sins from the time and the time before his time, right? What about all those other martyrs who die for sin (there probably are at least a few), do we still live because of them too? And furthermore, what about the last two thousand years? Who's gonna die to cover the sins of all that time?

Just fyi, not trying to offend anybody, it's just sort of philosophical religion Q&A
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Re: Religion.

Post by Sirdavid79 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:37 pm

Ok Pickle I love you and I love the Lord but you are starting to tern every topic into a Bible debate. We started off with a funny video that YOU put on here and then YOU started arguing about the stuff thats in it. Dont put it on here if you dont agree with it.

Everybody that wants to hear Gods word has seen it from these two topics and will ether reject or accsept it. Now lets all stop debating and start having fun on the fourms again. Like I said Im not rejecting the subject, but if we keep arguing about this then everybody involved is going to hate eachother, and then we wont have an many people in the acctivities we plan.=( So now lets stop debating. If any of you have any futher questions then contact one of us by PM or phone and we will do the best to ansewer them.
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Re: Religion.

Post by Sirdavid79 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:44 pm

Well Im sure Pickle would ansewer your question in a lot more detail in a lot longer of a post Wink but Jesus died for EVERY ONE.

That is me ansewer because I dont like debating things becasue Im not vary good at it so Ill let Pickle argue with you. Very Happy
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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:11 pm

I didnt think this was a debate as much as a Q and A session. They were asking me questions, and i was answering them. And as Christains, isnt Christ supposed to permeate throughout our entire lives? And idk if you were being joking or what, but if your'e affraid about stepping on peoples toes because you want to go to activities or others to come to activities, im srry, but im not gonna follow suit. And i said (i think in the other topic) that if they had questions, they could contact me any way they wanted, whether it be pm, phone, person, etc. and PLZ dont take this the wrong way. I still love you. You have been like a brother to me for years. but i fell a conviction to use the tools that God has given me to tell His Word. I really dont want to see any of these guys on their way to hell.

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Re: Religion.

Post by Sirdavid79 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:52 pm

Ok thats great! Very Happy But you still didnt ansewer my question about why you posted the video if you dont agree with it?
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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:08 pm

Im not saying that thats all we are getting, thats just some. think about it, if God made the earth in just 6 days, and we have some very beautiful sights here on earth, then heaven, which has been in the making for 2000 years, I cant even imagine the beauty there. Plus, when you are saved, you get a new mindset. You get fun from a lot more things. I have fun passing out tracts (i.e. Million Dollar Bills) and witnessing to people. And I also have fun at church as well. Basically, when im in the Lords presence, in His will, I feel just awesome. And when Im in heaven, I will be able to be with Him eternally, without any interruptions.

Now to the relationships. When people get married, part of the vows are "til death do us part." That means once we die, the marriage has run its course. A man asked Jesus if a woman marries a man, and then he dies, and she marries her husbands brother (custom of the day), and that happens 8 more times, who would be her husband in heaven. Jesus said that none of them would because there is no marriage in heaven. I said that we could see family and friends, not that we would spend our time in heaven just visiting relatives. But idk exactly what goes down in heaven, i havent been there Very Happy. But what i do know is that it will be a perfect paradise.

I dont think Hammurabi's Code was written before the 10 commandments (a.k.a. God's Law). It was written around 1790BC. And either way, God gave the ten commandments. We have to measure ourselves to it, not Hammurabi's Code. When I refer to the Law im talking about the Ten Commandments

Even if someone lives a "perfect" life, they still sin. And if they were born in the Congo, in a remote tribe that worshiped crocodiles, they have a conscience. He has given us a spirit of discernment. They know it isnt quite right to worship an animal. They know that it couldnt have made the earth of them for that matter. If they follow that instinct, and search for the true thing, the one and only God, He will send someone. That is why we have missionaries. Not to cram religion down throats, but to spread the truth so none should perish.

The criteria for hell, well, is breaking God's Law. If you have lied, you broke God's law. If you have stolen, you broke God's law. If you look back at teh first wall o' txt i wrote out the 10 commandments and examples of breaking them.

And dude, you must not have heard the rest of the story of Job. He lost everything, but because of his faith in God, while his friends and wife told him to give up, God gave him twice as many as everything he owned. He has 5000 donkeys, then after, God gave him 10,000 donkeys. he had 7 kids, then he had 14. And so on and so forth. But NOTHING is impossible with God. He overcame death itself, im pretty sure that He can help me overcome anything

The Bible is God's Word for us. He had it written for us. When you read the Bible, you are listening to God's words.

I said that babies are under God's grace. They have no understanding of a God, they cant use a toilet, let alone comprehend the idea of a god. But God still uses them. Ive heard of stories were the baby wasnt expected to live. take davids brother donovan for example. He was born prematurely. Mr. and Mrs. Vant were told numerous times that their son wouldnt make it through the night. But God kept Ol' Spud alive. After the doctors finally coped with the fact that he was alive, they said that he still wouldnt gain any more lung capacity, that he had. But, again, God showed them wrong and Spud is as healthy as a horse. God can use babies with disorders or diseases as beacons that draw people to him. Not all diseases are punishment, I mean, why would God punish a baby? AIDS and other diseases like it are examples of punishment. AIDS was widespread in America via a homosexual flight attendant. he spread it to a bisexual and from there went everywhere. God used AIDS to punish the sexually immoral. Now, again, AIDS isnt punishment only, so if a baby gets it, its probably not punishment.

God is omniscient, meaning all knowing. He knew that you would be born, and that you would need a Savior. Whether you think He died for you or not, He did. God sent his Son so you could live with Him in heaven. His death is a payment for your sins.

In some state (cant remember which one) a person was on death row. The governor had decided that he was going to give the man a pardon, but it was 3 hours before the procedure was going to begin. The man got word of the pardon, but didnt want it. The governor look through the state laws and found out that inorder for a pardon to be "active," the recipiant (spelling?) has to accept it. God gave us a pardon, all we have to do is accept it. If we dont, we are going to hell.

And you WERE created, as was everything else in this universe, providing evidence that there IS a creator. Just because you dont see a unicorn doesnt mean that there isnt a God. that just like saying that you see a building, but no garage, so therefore, there wasnt a builder. Its nonsense.

Again, I beg that you read everything that I have written on the past couple of pages and ask yourself if you just happen to be wrong this once about this one thing, because you have been wrong about things before, what would happen. And get it right with God. I'll be praying for you.

In Christ,
Dylan "Pickle" Follis

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Re: Religion.

Post by Pickle on Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:10 pm

I said that i didnt like that ellen is a homosexual. I didnt post the video just to argue about homosexuality. I saw the opportunity to share the Word after hunter replied with what he replied, and took it.

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Re: Religion.

Post by Sirdavid79 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:52 pm

Ok and thats all I wanted to know. Smile
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Re: Religion.

Post by Sirdavid79 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:10 pm

See I told you he would give you an ansewer in a much longer post than I did Wink But what he says it true and I to will be praying for any one who does read his wall 'o txt. Very Happy
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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:42 pm

Geez, Pickle, calm down... I don't really feel like making this kind of heated, and I'm not really in a thoughtful mood right now to give your "wall o' text" the proper response, but I can respond to that last part...

What if you're wrong about God?
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Re: Religion.

Post by the guffman on Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:44 pm

my only response: lol, Pickle said Hunter took it
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Re: Religion.

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